A few weeks ago, The Church of the Sacred Synthesis released information to the public that their year-long research into the chemistry of their sacrament, the novel compound of Psilomethoxin (4-HO-5-MeO-DMT), had yielded promising results. To help us understand what they’ve done and what they’ve found, I’ve invited their science officer, Adam McKay, and Ian Benouis to join me in a 3-way conversation about the research, the results, and where they’re going from here. Just a reminder to my listening audience: I am not a chemist! Adam presents as a careful researcher and his findings seem interesting and compelling to me, but again, I’m not a chemist. Listen in and hear what he has to say . . .
Episode 287: The Solandarian Game, Chapters 5 and 6 – The Entheogenic Evolution
- Episode 287: The Solandarian Game, Chapters 5 and 6
- Episode 286: Psychedelic Sacred Sexuality with Astraeus Amori
- Episode 285: The Solandarian Game, Chapters 3 and 4
- Episode 284: Pablo Lopez on 5-MeO-DMT, Human Development and Sexuality
- Episode 282: Exploring the Science of Psilomethoxin with Adam McKay and Ian Benouis
Martin Ball 0:00
Greetings, and welcome to the latest edition of the entheogenic evolution podcast. As always, I’m your host, Martin, and I’m happy to have you with us today. But this week’s episode, going to go ahead and wade back into what is I’m sure going to be a controversial issue for some folks out there. I’m having in Ian Benouis back on the podcast. And he’s also joined by Adam McKay. They are both joining me from the Church of the Sacred Synthesis, which was formerly the Church of Psilomethoxin. And as I’m sure many of you, listeners are already aware that they have released information from Adam’s own scientific research into psilomethoxin claiming that they feel that there’s pretty good evidence that they actually do have the molecule that they say that they have. Adam is the chief scientific officer and chemist for the church. He’s been working on this research for the past year. And he has quite a bit to share here on the podcast, he kind of takes the bulk of the conversation, because he’s the one who’s doing all the scientific research and work on it. And basically says that he thinks that there’s a very good chance that they do have salad with oxen. And he’s got all the scientific reasons for that. And I just want to remind the listeners that I myself, am not a chemist, I am not qualified to make any kind of assessments over what is accurate or inaccurate, or what is good science versus bad science in all of this, that I am a layperson, as I’m sure many of you are as well. And if you who are listening, if you are a chemist, and if you want to take issue with it, or raise arguments, that’s fine, but you don’t need to direct them at me, because again, I’m not a chemist, I cannot assess any one side of this. But I do think that it’s something that’s worthwhile reporting on, I think it’s worthwhile listening to what Adam has to say that he does present as being quite diligent in his research and in his work. And I think it’s worthwhile to give them a listen. And they also are inviting collaboration, in contrast to what the Church of sacred synthesis experienced last year, which was kind of sabotage and defamation versus collaboration. And I think that we could all use a little bit more patience and understanding and actually working with each other. So that’s my plug for that. We’ll get to the conversation in just a minute. But a couple of quick announcements before we get to it. So looking forward on the podcast. Coming up next week, we’re going to be wrapping up our time with the audio book for the facilitating five Meo DMT anthology. There are actually two appendices left in the book. But one is my conversation with Howie, which is still active here on the entheogenic evolution podcast. And I just thought that I would direct you there if you want to listen to that. It was from back in 2022, before the book was actually released, but the conversation is still active on the podcast so you can go back and listen. And we’re gonna skip ahead to the final appendix of the book, which is Appendix D, which is my chapter on theology verses and theology. And that’s going to wrap up our time with the facilitating five Meo DMT anthology. Of course, if you want the entire audio book, go find it at Audible Amazon, the Apple iBooks Store, and along with all my other audio books are out there as well. And of course, speaking of books, my new book, five Meo DMT integration, embodying non duality is not what you think education and empowerment for working with the god molecule is now available in paperback and ebook format, and also as a PDF with full color art available over at my Patreon shop, along with 17 other books, most of which have some full color art in them as well. You can stop by at patreon.com/martin W ball, and just go to the shop that’s at the top of the page. And you can check out the PDF books that are available there for purchase and download. And of course, while you’re there at my Patreon page, I would invite you to consider signing up as a paid supporter and patron. There’s everything from $1 a month, all the way up to $100 a month, which also gets you a one hour complimentary video call with me each and every month. And there’s lots of ranges in between. And a reminder that if you start at the $20 a month and up you get access to the full back catalogue of the MP eugenic evolution podcast that is exclusively available over there at my Patreon page, and your support is always appreciated, whatever level you are comfortable with. And there is no obligation, you can raise it, you can lower it, you can come you can go but I do invite you to consider becoming a patron that I am an independent author, publisher, podcaster, musician, artist, photographer. Everything I do is very independent. And I do rely on people supporting me in doing that. So I’d invite you to consider signing up over at Patreon and you can also sign up for free, if you want, but $1 month is great. $5 a month is great. That’s about a $1 donation per podcast episode every month. So lots of choices over there. And speaking of calls, of course, I am available for 3060 and 90 minute integration calls from a non dual and energetic perspective. I’m gonna be out of the office for the next two weeks. But if you want to reach out at Martin w ball@gmail.com, or at non dual Anthea genic integration.com and shoot me a message, I’m happy to get you on the schedule for when I am back in the office in early April. Let’s see also on my list is I want to give a shout out to Stephen Kirby at the unchurched University, which has just begun its five Meo DMT facilitation course. And I am very much looking forward to getting in on that teaching one or two classes a month. And that’ll be starting next month for me, but the course is already underway. So congratulations, Stephen. And I’m thrilled to be a part of that. My last announcement is that over this past week, I have been busy making some new music, which is going to go to supporting the audio book for the forthcoming five Meo DMT integration audio book, which I will be making. You know, sometime next month, I will be starting to work on that. But I’ve got six new tracks available, if you want to check them out. They’re over my Bandcamp page and Martin ball.bandcamp.com, just listed under new songs 2024. And I’ll put in one of those new tracks here at the end the conversation with Ian and Adam. Well, I think we’re about ready to get into the conversation, just want to let you know that we’re we’re recording from three different locations. So there’s three different audio setups. So there are some variations in the levels of our various voices, and a few transmission issues here and there. But overall, I just want to encourage you to listen with an open mind, especially if you’re not a chemist. And if you are a chemist, maybe even have a more open mind and just listen to what Adam has to say. And one last reminder, I myself am not a chemist, I cannot make any assessments about any of the claims made here. But let’s go ahead and listen. I think that Adam is very, very cautious about what he’s trying to claim. He says that this is very good evidence, he just does not claim that is definitive evidence and that more research is needed. And he’s proposing collaboration to help do that, which I think is great. So let’s give it a listen. Here is Adam McKay and Indian wheeze from the Church of the sacred synthesis, discussing Adams research into the potential identification of the silent with oxen molecule within their church’s sacramental mushrooms. All right, here we go. I am very excited to have this conversation today here on the entheogenic evolution Podcast. I’m welcoming back in Ben wheeze, and also welcoming for the first time on to the podcast, Adam McKay. And both of you are joining me today from the Church of the sacred synthesis. And we’ve got some big news or you guy, you guys have got some big news. So all that you guys start with the big news that I just saw references to I think it was just yesterday, when some official posts were made by the Church of the sacred synthesis, but yes, what is the big news that you guys have to share?
Ian Benouis 8:23
Thanks for having us on the show. And again, Martin, for me. And yeah, I’d love for Adam to go tell people what he did and what he found.
Adam McKay 8:30
Well, it’s been quite a long journey. And we found some pretty interesting things. It’s started about a year ago, believe it or not, I don’t think I’ve told you this. And I think Thursday was the one year anniversary of meeting the church and joining and deciding to embark on this mission. In that timeline, you know, we took about three months of planning and research, catching up on just about everything related to Salah with toxin and to meet science in general. Only to take another six months to start our initial plan which required research. And when I say ground up, we had to build a facility from the ground up there was a concrete slab and some solar panels above it. And that was it, there was there was only those two items and then we had to make some walls. You know, an electrician did come in, you know, we have to follow code. But other than that we had to build an entire facility ourselves and then make it into a laboratory. Once we did that, that took six months and three months. Had to conduct the research and boiboi Has that been some fun research found out quite a lot about this sacrament. And for one thing, it the molecule which for good reason has not been identified. Injil recently in a natural setting has a bunch of unique properties. We can get onto that in a little bit. But I’ve already spoken a bit too much before the next question. No,
Martin Ball 10:11
that’s quite all right, Adam. So the Church of the sacred synthesis, the sacrament, and this is Ian, you were on. It’s probably almost a year ago, now that I had you on the show. And you were kind of the, the creative force behind all of this and and talked about adding five Meo DMT, to the substrate of the mushrooms and then having them grow and convert that into sila methoxy, into the four h o five Meo DMT. And right around the time, oh, and you got the molecule there. Awesome. And right around this time, we had the Research Institute of you Sona claim that they got a sample from an anonymous source or something like that. And they said that they tested it for solid with oxygen, and there was no solid with oxygen in it. And then I think a couple other labs kind of jumped in and said the same thing. And then it became it kind of exploded on social media, with your friends in mind symposia, coming in and writing up all these articles. And basically, the tenor out there was that the Church of sila methoxy, or the church and sacred synthesis, these guys are a bunch of frauds, and they’re diluting everyone. And they’re basically distributing these bogus mushrooms. But now with Adam, we have confirmation of sadolin attacks. And so let’s, let’s kind of talk about what happened there. And then we need Adam, your input on how to do the science in such a way that actually it can be confirmed. And please treat me like a chemical idiot, because I’m a chemical at it. I’m not a chemist, and certainly most of my audience are not chemists. So when we see something like from usoda, and they say, hey, well, look, we did this. We did this analysis. And you see there, this is where it should be, and there’s nothing here. It’s hard for people who aren’t scientifically literate to know, you know what to say other than Well, look, looks like a dud. So where do you guys want to jump in on those topics? Of course,
Adam McKay 12:23
and no one should ever say that they are a chemical idiot. At best, we might be some idiots full of chemicals. But most of us are not a yesterday looked at mangoes and everyone could understand certain ways. So I’ll start with actually the usoda paper. Because I’m sure and has time and time again explained what the church is what they do, and what the sacrament is. One sentence overview, of course, is five Meo DMT is added to a mushroom substrate and it makes silom, a toxin inside the mushroom. They had believed it was bio synthetically, we now know that it is in there. And since no machines touch it, we’re going to still assume it’s bio synthetically. But the most interesting aspect about this confirmation that I’ll get into detail is how deep does something have to really go for it to be confirmed that you Sona looked for it and said it was not there. And now we’ve looked for it, and saw that it is there and then tried to make sure. So there wasn’t any doubt that we looked in different ways, and had like, an entire another party look for it. And this may sound confusing, and it is somebody lying to somebody like just doing bad science making mistakes or it hiding something. But that all comes down to at the heart of science really is methodology. You saw in a paper, which is actually just, I believe two pages here, you know, don’t crucify me, if it’s three I forget. It’s fairly short. So anyone can give it a look through. They use a method to test called UPLC mass spectrometry, it’s just basically really good HPLC. And a mass spectrometer added on to separate everything out in the first part. And then the second part of what each of those components weighs, you can run standards. And you can see what like each of those things that you’re weighing also looks like when you wait a standard to get extra, like positive confirmation. But the problem is you can’t wait measure something that never went into the instrument. So if I had a cup full of A, B, C and D, and I extracted a C and D without any B and then I put my extraction with a C and D into a machine Come and look and machine was telling me everything that it was like in my extraction, it say there’s no B, because the B was still in the cup. So they use methanol to extract the, what they thought was silver toxin and everything else, the mixture. And then they tested that extract because you don’t just shoot like mushroom powder into like these instruments. You make liquids, and then they get injected, like by microliter amounts. And so of course, you Sona wouldn’t detect it because it never made it into their instruments. And again, I am not making a definitive claim on any of what they actually did. This is what I am concluding from their paper. And I’m not trying to make any assertion Other than this, what I conclude by reading that paper. Again, I’m not trying to discredit anyone, because that’s a go to solvents. Every, like tryptamine analysis in the past with one substitution, you know, all the other ones besides Cillessen, psilocybin, again, resistant biosystem norsu lowson. All all tryptamine from fungi have been analyzed by robustly proven method of methanolic extraction, it would be stupid really took them not to have tried that to test for anything that has ever been tested before. But the caveat here is that this has never been tested before. This is not a single substituted shirt doing. This has two substitutions right next to each other. Now, this is where we are going to not do any crazy advanced science. But remember that molecules are made of atoms bonded together, those bonds are held together by electrons and orbitals that overlap and biomechanics as to deal with all that. And suffice it to say that when you add more atoms and bonds, the general like reactivity, or like chemical nature of the substance changes, not just by where you add that bond, things around it become weaker or stronger. In this case, there’s two substitutions on the tryptamine, which has a really like electron rich area like you’ve ever pictured a molecule, if he can handle it up great, you see that ring. And in a ring under a tattoo, it’s not too important to see other one. But there’s two rings he’s holding by the Yep. But that whole system is alternating double bonds, they call it aromatic. And it’s very electron rich. Now you have an oxygen oxygen. Also, as you know, it does a lot with its electrons on the four and a five position, now you both have oxygens. So trying to have like two oxygens right there next to each other on this, that will change the chemical reactivity of this. And therefore, like that hydrogen may come on or off easier. Every part of the molecule now as a different strength of bond between everything, probably mild, it still holds together. But when we talk about the strength of the bonds, most important one in this case is probably the hydrogen bond somewhere. So what’s a good example of this? I’m sure in terms of many things, we’ve heard of Freebase and acid salt, even tryptamines do, like DMT, for example, so be in its Freebase form, which means that it is the has a hydrogen that is not there removed, and that Freebase form is nonpolar, it’s soluble in oils. And then people have vaporized that it’s acid salt form. Clinically, the flu America acid has a hydrogen that given that, but that would be an H plus, and so has to have a minus somewhere before a negative ion. And so the acid form is intrinsically polar, and therefore soluble in water. Alternative means to have a property like this, and things like five Meo DMT can be made as the the food Marie fall or Freebase and honestly, even the psilocybin and psilocin. Any any molecule that can have it will do that, but they’re all they all have different strengths of their asset dissociation. That’s a fancy word for how like easy it is to take that hydrogen on and off. The long point that I’ve been circling around. Thank you for putting up with that is because there’s two oxygens right next to each other. It is my hypothesis that the acity of that molecule is altered. Add from all the other tryptamines. And biological and clinical VH is where we try and extract it. It might not have a solubility in water or methanol, just because all the other ones are soluble in methanol at the pH that it is in its medium, doesn’t mean that this one will also have the same, like pH necessities to be soluble in methanol versus water. Okay, so if I didn’t think about this, theoretically, I didn’t just think about this and do it. And I’m still researching, like, the bottles to see if that even has any validity. So this is not something I’m hoping to be, like, pulled out on if it turns to be just like not true. It’s my theory. But what I did do is I tried extracting it using every possible solvent and pH, I obviously use methanol, and water, and 50%, methanol, water, and other solvents and combinations. And each one of those combinations or like single ones done at both neutral acidic and basic pH is there is literally an array of that I can attest to holding grid that just organized by the all the solid combinations or items that I just extracted under all conditions and tested each one. And it turns out that anything with more than about 50% water, and neutral gets a signal for style a toxin. I didn’t know it was a solid toxin A signal at the time of extraction using an HPLC, which has no standard at that time. But I did get extra P. So that’s when of course I then took what had things to be investigated further to a mass spectrometer.
And then that mass Raman mass spectrometer that was a HPLC or LC MS is what it is, it’s a single quadrupole gave me to one decimal place, the 35.1 mass in repeated samples, which prompted then to reserve time, under the much more I guess, precise instrument is a triple quadrupole. And those are the results that have been shared from the triple quadruple LCMS. And that confirms the presence of a molecule blank 235.15.
Martin Ball 22:34
Okay, so. Okay, so let me just sum up a little bit. So going back to the point that really what it comes down to is methodology. And as you said that there’s this methanol extraction method, that would just be the standard for analyzing materials to see what tryptamines might be present within them. So that’s the laboratory go to so we’re assuming that that’s what you Sona did and perhaps the other labs that might have looked at samples of the church’s sacrament, that they’d probably be doing the same thing of going with methanol. But because we have these additions to that base molecule, that DMT molecule, we have, in addition, at the four position and the five position, you’re saying that the potential of having these two oxygens close together like that could create a certain amount of instability within the molecule so that maybe it would get destroyed in the process of the methanol extraction, or that it wouldn’t be extracted properly. So that then when those materials go into the mass spectrometer, as you say, if you’re looking for a, b, c, and d, but B was never in the mix, that it’s never going to show up in well distinguish
Adam McKay 23:49
between the two being present, like at the laboratory bench before you start. And whether or not you’re saying be was present at the machine, when you extract the machine tests like Alcatel alikhan or whatever, when you take what you’re trying to test and make the sample that you’re putting into the instrument. So so the Wii could still be on the bench and not have made it into the instrument.
Martin Ball 24:17
Right so that in other words, just because it didn’t show up in the test, doesn’t mean it wasn’t in the original materials.
Adam McKay 24:27
Yes. They did not put material, any fungal like solid batter into an instrument. These are sort of liquids that go in and they flow and you have to create a solution.
Ian Benouis 24:44
So they proved a false negative margin, which we know you can’t. Ultimately disproven negatives did move on problem.
Adam McKay 24:54
Exactly is correct. And these problems I see is everything until the very end The paper, they tested by a certain method, which the method that everyone’s always been testing for, as they did that, you know, with the professor analogy that an instituted level should be, like holding for test. And then they went at the very end and claimed, therefore, due to this test, there isn’t anything in that there isn’t any Simon toxin in the sample. The problem is, you have to say there’s nothing in a sample, you have to check the entire sample. And so we’re still untested material that didn’t go into the machine that was not in the methanol. So they reasonably if this is an investigative, new substance new, like the sacrament, no one has really been testing that they should have checked to see what’s the soluble obviously, in water, because people are eating this, they’re made of water, and whatever soluble and water will go into the people. And honestly, just test with all possible substances, just out of curiosity, but they’re not obligated to publish what soluble in ether, or, you know, just, but if I had that lab, I would affect as many different substances as possible, because a new thing, you know, you don’t know what you could discover until you try to do so.
Martin Ball 26:24
And that’s, that’s what you’re discussing about, then using water as the solvent, that apparently, if you use water, and then you do the the rest of the methodology of say, putting into the mass spectrometer, then you’re gonna get a result. Yeah,
Adam McKay 26:39
so you extract, it’s just like literally putting it in water and letting it like, go up right and dissolve it, well, it doesn’t dissolve, but extract out leach out whatever is soluble in water into the water. And then you take that water, put it through a very like tiny filter because particulates can’t go into the machine, it’s only liquid. And you put that liquid into the instrument, which I keep calling machine, it’s an instrument there is a difference, then the liquid gets tested, whether the instrument takes UV absorbance, after separating through like some kind of a chromatographic column, which is HPLC or UPLC, where it then goes into any kind of mass measurements. You have to put the liquid in an illiquid, xOP prepared preparation. But methanol was like a reason that it did not show up in that or most other sub any other subsequent studies. As far as I’ve read a couple of them. I’d like to see more if they’re already every single one used. Which we’re not hating on because that is the real test for psilocybin and singles of Judah tryptamines. But this double substituted one appears to have different chemical properties. And I’d like to make some points about that more in detail after this topic has been further discussed. Okay,
Martin Ball 28:05
thanks, Adam. Ian, is there anything that you wanted to add to this part of the conversation? You’ve been patiently sitting there?
Ian Benouis 28:13
I just think that so we found supplements, we confirmed a little toxin in our sacrament, through the molar mass right up to 35.15. And we still had can do more testing third party and NMR and all that, which will further confirm what we already found. And then Adam can also talk about we synthesize the reference standard that people were saying, How can you make any claims without the reference standard? How can you test without the reference standard? And Adam made that as well. So So
Martin Ball 28:42
then, explain to us what that means. And what is a reference shirt again, as as a non chemist from somebody, because I think that that was one of the things that came up with with the as soon as I was looking at, we say it should be here, but it’s not here. And I know that that was part of the response was what is the reference standard? But so what do we mean by this? Again, for us, non people who are made of chemicals, but don’t know all the details of your chemicals? Like, like me, I know, I made of chemicals. Better? I don’t know what a reference standard is. So could you explain? Yeah, go
Ian Benouis 29:18
for it. Okay,
Adam McKay 29:19
well, how do you know that when you measure anything, your measurement is correct. For example, how do you know that? Taking a ruler and making a measurement on that, that the ruler gave you the right measurement, assuming your scale is perfect. How do you know that the ruler reads right? And so you say okay, the ruler company made it correctly. The head of the rule company know how the ruler is supposed to be made correctly. And this is a chain problem that applies to any measurement of you know, any measurable quantity, or weight, length Time. We asked to have like an established and agreed upon set of standards. And this goes all the way to the top and to the literal like home of the world standards. And they have a National Institute of Standards and Technology that you know, can say, Oh, this is actually what our kilogram is. And they basically make sure that we’re all in check. And before I say anything incorrect, or that I’m not a standards expert, I’m just going to look it up the NIST is the National Institute of Standards and Technology for the United States. But there is an entity, I believe, somewhere in Switzerland, and if you know, the global standard for maths, you know that what I’m talking about?
Ian Benouis 30:50
Yeah, but that’s a little bit off. You know, I had referred to standards for these substances when you’re trying when they made some a toxin, 1965 Margulies group at the Pasteur Institute, and when they made it, then it was oxidized that the answer they didn’t have a sample of it. So no one could make it again and be able to test it back against the reference sample. Oh,
Adam McKay 31:14
yes, that’s the end of that whole point. I was getting that. And I paused in the beginning, but I got the answer for you. There’s an International Bureau of Weights and measurements, and they literally have their they have what is supposed to be a kilogram like the world basis, what a kilogram weighs on, on their, like, special preserved sphere are made out of some metal, that is exactly what it should be. And that that point aside, that’s the intro. How do you know what a standard is a standard has to be something that everyone agrees is correct. So when you make a new measurement, such as wind, now you take that ruler that somewhere in like the world degree to foot, his foot, and then they told like the country and the country told there is a company’s make rulers with the feet that are correct. The same thing goes for testing chemicals, you have to go into the FDA in like FDA cert, like, like testing based labs, like anything, making pharmaceuticals, for example, if you want to test for any substance that they approved, the test for, you have to use a standard that they approve is really a standard. And you have to get that standard from the USP generally, or else there are certain exceptions to this. And those are very strict regulations that, you know, the FAA applies to pharmaceuticals. But so even here, you don’t have to have a USP certified standard for, you know, non pharmaceutical needs. But to know what something is with certainty, you do have to compare it against something, you know, with certainty. And part of that, but most of that is why you Sona did not have a standard at the time and check the mass. And that’s all you can check for if you find something for the first time they look for the mass, which it should be at that 230 5.1441. If I recall in their paper, and they didn’t find it. Of course, that’s because you’d methanol does not dissolve it. However, you can dissolve the water and find it. And there you go. Now, I got off track because knowing about standards. And once you have a standard, you contest for something using that standard, very easy. But making that standard is very hard, because how do you prove that there is no possible way in all universal exceptions, that couldn’t be what it is. It takes extensive testing in every single way. And it takes much more than HPLC anything with mass like you have to NMR but then you that’s not even enough. There’s X ray studies, there’s like countless other studies to be performed. And even the study that we did, we showed that there really is in all batches at the sacrament, we tested more than one historically going back to as many as I could have a big I got some from all throughout the last year that there is a 230 5.15 substance, a signal with a substance that gives a signal of that way in all of them. That doesn’t say it’s still a toxin. But it also says What else could be sold at that what else could weigh that much worse. So it’s very, like indicative and you know, almost certain that it is this. Nothing in life though is 100%. But like 99.999 Even is really great.
Martin Ball 34:53
So if I could just step in here on this issue of molecular mass, so just correct me if I’m If I’m misunderstanding this or if I’m articulating this incorrectly, but by that what, like looking at the the audience can’t see it, but Ian is wearing his shirt. It says salad with oxen, four h o five Meo DMT on it. So that is the purported molecule that we’re talking about here. Now, as a molecule, it is made of very specific ingredients. And Ian is also holding up molecular structure of the silent methoxy. And on the screen here, now, every carbon or hydrogen or oxygen or anything else that’s part of that molecule has its own atomic weight. And so when we put them all together, it’s going to have a total weight. And so if I’m understanding correctly, that what you’re proposing is that sila methoxy, and four h o five Meo DMT has a molecular weight of 230 5.15. Now it’s possible No,
Adam McKay 35:54
that is incorrect. So okay, okay.
Martin Ball 35:57
Okay. Then, go ahead and jump in.
Adam McKay 36:00
Okay, so every have you on the periodic table? It contains all the weights of each element, right? Okay. Yes, most people can agree on that, or just Google periodic table, and it’ll show all the 1000s of pictures, which have all the weights of the elements. So those element weights, those are not the exactly the weight of what one element would weigh. There are specific definitions, I’m pulling up a periodic table. Now just to make sure I say the correct number for any any particular one. Pick an element you guys. Car, okay, I’m and then 55.845 is what is on the periodic table. So that is the average weight of an iron atom. If you come across and have like, a scale that weighs that atom. However, every individual atom does not weigh that at all. And that’s because of isotopes. An isotope sounds like a fancy word, but it’s pretty simple. It just means an atom is a nucleus with protons and neutrons and their electrons. And around it. Every element is defined by the number of protons. And when you have one is hydrogen to helium, blah, blah, blah, carbon has six, in generally, it has six electrons. So it’s carbon 12, who’s here of a carbon dating, for example, you swipe left on nitrogen swipe right on carbon, not just carbon dating, is when you use like techniques to measure something’s age by figuring out how much of carbon 14 Is there, decayed, etc. But what I just said carbon usually weighs 12. Well, there’s sometimes carbon 14, the number of protons to find the element. And the number of neutrons, neutrons just are there neutrally, to help keep bigger nuclei together is believe it or not positive protons would repel each other. Otherwise, some carbon atoms are isotopes or the same element, but within different number of neutrons and, and the weight of some carbon weighs more than other carbon. It’s the it chemically acts as carbon because it has the same charges. And so the electrons on the same way, but it weighs a little more. And because of this, you can have like a molecule that, let’s say weighs 100 If all the carbons are carbon 12. But if one of those carbons is an isotope of C 14, the same molecule would weigh 102. And almost every application ever, you’re taking countless, you know, Avogadro’s numbers, which is the number of molecules and I say, well number of atoms and say 12 grams of carbon is the definition, or give or take 6.02 times 10 to the 23. There’s that many in just a gram. So you’re dealing with innumerable amounts of these things. So statistics is dominant. And it really just means you get averages. So if there’s 1.2% Of all the carbon on the planet is C 14, and almost all the dials is C 12. Then the average weight is going to be like 12.011, which is what the periodic table says. So that’s why we get those numbers. Now. If you are trying to just eat make us do any do anything but separate atom by atom or molecule by molecule, you use the average weight. That’s why it’s so a toxin as the molar mass of 230 4.299 but that is because in tango at 23 zero after it’s over the toxins, you’re gonna get some of those carbons being isotopes. I was a long way, again to thank you for putting up with all that back on info. But we’re at the answer. Now, that was a long way to explain that when you use mass spectrometry, you’re getting signals one at a time. So if an isotope hits, it will hit at a different mass then another isotope. So you have to use something called the mono isotopic mass. And this is easily Google, Google liberal. Anyone can look up mono isotopic mass, and that takes into account the weight of it given the most common isotope, it’s generally almost the same, but it is slightly different. That is why we look for 230 5.15.
Martin Ball 40:44
And zero, if I understand correctly, and of course, correct me if I’m wrong, the the, with this number of 230 5.15, that there’s the potential that we could get a different mix of molecules and atoms that might produce this. And so that’s what we want to rule out. Is that correct?
Adam McKay 41:04
That is technically a possibility. But however, since we go to two decimal places on the hybrid solution, one of the chances of combinations of things adding up now to like, the amount of numbers you can add up to make 235 is 100 130, and 550 101 515 2535. Right, a lot of combos. But once you start saying, Well, you can only it’s it’s made of carbon, so you can only add 12 and 14 and 16 is for Nitrogen, Oxygen ones or hydrogen to fuel add 1214 16 ones, how many different combinations of those can you even have as a whole to reach that number with a decimal place? And no matter how small or large that number is, there are much more complications beyond that. Let’s say you get the right amounts of atoms. Let’s say you get all of them, you get 13 carbons, 18 hydrogens, two nitrogens and two oxygens. One that’s that’s the formula for solar toxin and must be it. But so toxins for rage five Meo DMT what if in this case, that’s six oh h five Meo DMT, or 7085 Meo or really you take any atom anywhere and put it somewhere else, it’ll still weigh the same. So that is why to the weight isn’t enough evidence, but it is the first the evidence required. And it is strong evidence to show that it behaves as this molecule would and weighs as
Martin Ball 42:45
much as it should. Okay, so that was
Adam McKay 42:47
a remark about that six as well. After you come back, I am dominating all the science talk here.
Martin Ball 42:54
That’s quite alright. So for the listening audience, what Ian was demonstrating for us, as Adam was discussing all this, as he was taking that four H O, that’s what you’re removing was the four H O. And then he was showing, well, we could put it at the fourth position, or the sixth position or the seventh position, right. And so we’d still have the same amount of material. And so technically, it would be the same weight, but it would be a different molecule, because where things are bonded is what determines what makes a molecule a molecule that it’s it’s not just random, right? That the four H O is at the four position, it’s not the seven H O and so that would that would potentially be a different tryptamine. Now,
Adam McKay 43:36
that is exactly right. And that is not something I’m trying to assert that the weight means it’s that, in fact, I am excited to now start pursuing the next test after checking the way is correct, which is nuclear magnetic resonance. It’s a test is similar to an MRI, but for atoms that can help elucidate the structure or positions of what bonds are bonded where. And it can resolve the fancy word for moving the four to the sixth is called an isomer. That can resolve what is the same but which isomer it is. I have already though attempted to address this in a way that’s not confirmation, but useful. The reference standard that I had tried to synthesize did come out to weigh the same amount. But interestingly enough, and I had theorizes due to the way it was synthesized. It came out with two different products that both weigh this. So I had made two of the possible things I made the six and the four. And I they both did weigh correctly, and their signal did come up when testing against the sacrament to show that only one of them
Martin Ball 44:53
was present. So how were you able to do that test then for
Adam McKay 44:57
that same way that’s like on that The image that was shown on the church website, the st. LCMS, triple quadrupole. Not only was the sacrament ran, but then afterwards, the purported standard to see if it was the correct standard, if the synthesis had been done properly was ran. And yes, it did show two separate things that came out at two separate times. The LC part of the LCMS kind of takes everything that goes in at once, and N isolates and puts them out one at a time and the chromatography. So two separate things came out that weighed exactly the same at different times. And then in the sacrament had gone in, which went in first. At the time, one of those two things came out afterwards. It was 35.15. So the sacrament has one of those two positional isomers in it, but not the other one. Okay.
Martin Ball 45:58
So then, also, I think you mentioned in testing this, that you went back, and you looked at batches from all the way back for pretty much a year. And so you looked at so this has been being produced in different batches, and und were able to confirm that there is definitely something there the 230 5.15 position, or is that molecular weight is Am I describing that correctly? That’s what showed up in all the samples,
Adam McKay 46:26
the tests give something called an m slash Z, and they use magnets to deflect something that and that calculated way, etc. But essentially, that’s equivalent to other units like deltans. Or you could say amu, atomic mass units. Yeah, without being too technical. You can use all those terms. So just or unitless, to say it weighs 235
Ian Benouis 46:52
Or it’s the molar mass, or you just say that,
Adam McKay 46:54
yeah, the the molar mass is term. Yeah, you could just say it’s, yeah, all those terms essentially, are the same. When you’re doing mass spec, you do want to use monoisotopic. But unless anyone’s doing that, it won’t make a difference to use all those words.
Martin Ball 47:12
Okay, so now, let’s just imagine that you Sona still has some of these materials around from that one little capsule that I believe they got, now that you’ve laid out the science and the methodology for how to do this, could they go back? And could they test their sample again? And could they even like, write a retraction of their original scientifically?
Adam McKay 47:38
Absolutely, I am surprised that they didn’t retest it. I’m surprised they reach out before publishing to say, hey, we didn’t find anything, guys. Why aren’t you like, what’s going on here? I’m surprised that they tested once and publish that. Perhaps they only published one test and afford others I don’t know. I have respect for them. They are an institute. But it just, it just seemed odd to me. And obviously, it’s why I wanted to conduct my own tests. And now, of course, we’re here today with these findings and hoping that you can all move forward to discover more.
Martin Ball 48:19
And of course, we don’t have anybody from USANA here representing them. But just to jump on what you said there, Adam, that my original impression of the article that they wrote that for one, I was surprised that they would write, they would submit a quote unquote, scientific paper from an ultimately unknown source where they could not confirm that this actually did come from the Church of sacred synthesis that they said, Well, this was donated anonymously. And then yeah, to only test one little sample, then to basically reach the conclusion that Well, we think they’re frauds. We think that this is fraudulent, of what this church is doing. I mean, those are very, very strong claims. And that’s the view that, of course, was taken up by symposia, because symposia only wants to dig up dirt on people and say negative things and produce a negative social media buzz. And then that became the narrative of, we’re using words like frauds, fakes, you know, just very negative language, rather than the more neutral scientific of well, we tested a sample that may or may not have come from this place, we have not communicated with the source that supposedly produces we have not had a scientific discussion with anyone. So it just seemed to kind of prop up this whole kind of adversarial and sort of gotcha culture of oh, look, we found somebody that we can say is, is fake and a fraud.
Adam McKay 49:48
I’ll say one more thing before I hand this all over to Ian about the science. And just because of what you had said right now, I never want to be in a position like that. And so I tried to use the most correct words here, but I’ll do an overall Catholic verification. I kept determined a synthetic method and performed it that theory said I should have these two, like, six and four Oh h and then when weighed it and found two things are the exact same weight. So I It looks like it is at least worth looking further into that it is though pretty, pretty solid evidence that, you know, something there. And why would it not be that and if it is I’m gonna have to find out why. So this is not anything definitive. This is not a publication, but there is now going to be more definitive testing to show that there’s no way it couldn’t be just in case anyone was trying to assume that I am defiant definitively claiming all sorts of syntheses six oh H’s presence. It all looks pretty strong. But we will be continuing on with all the proper testing. And at that point, I do hope that anyone who has access to NMR testing and X ray facilities would happily reach out. I’m Adam at Silver doxon.com That’s E and at Sylvan toxin.com. We all would love to collaborate and really learn the truth about this. We got the first step, the strongest step, but there’s always more.
Martin Ball 51:24
Great, thank you, Adam. Anything you want to add on that?
Ian Benouis 51:29
Well, no, ask me more questions, man. Yeah, there was a lot there was a lot of science and I guess this is you know, our culture, but we don’t even spend the time to understand any of this. No wonder you saw the science wasn’t good. And then a lot of people didn’t understand the science and just just repeated it. But, yeah, people like that other group you mentioned riving. There. People that are like that are sort of like Insell posers that are masquerading as journalists. And yeah, that, that, that that won’t last very long.
Martin Ball 52:08
Yeah. So from from the organizational standpoint, and I know that you’re more involved at this end than Adam is because Adam is the Science Guy. But let’s just go back in time, let’s let’s imagine that you Sona actually reached out to the church. How might that have been dealt with at the time?
Ian Benouis 52:28
And we were open we wanted, we wanted help to find out what was in there. And yeah, without naming any names, we’d already shared our sacrament with other people who had access at least mass spec and hadn’t been able to find it. But that that didn’t mean it wasn’t there. And so yeah, we really, yeah, we asked other people, the community, and then no one is able to do it. So yeah, if you sound ahead, ask the sound legitimate sleep, just legitimately, you know what I mean, you came above table and like, we want to help you we’re working with the same kind of science. Yeah, that would, that would have been great. But they came us came at us out of nowhere, and didn’t didn’t offer us any courtesies. And then their timing was to publish their article like two days before embryogenesis. It’s like, come on, that’s, you know, everyone’s just trying to ruin our party.
Martin Ball 53:24
Yeah, that’s honestly, that’s really how it felt. And one of the things that came up in the asana article, which for me, was kind of an indication of will keep looking that they they did mention, even there in their Yosano article that there have been lots of self reports by people consuming this mushroom sacrament, and reporting novel experiences. And so that’s where I fall into that category, that I had received some of the sacrament, I made a video of myself consuming it. And I said, Yeah, this is this is definitely different than a regular quote unquote, psilocybin magic mushroom that I can definitively say, from a phenomenological standpoint of what I am experiencing, this is something different. And of course, that’s why symposia wanted to be sure and get my name in the article that they wrote about the church saying, oh, yeah, this guy, again, because they already like to go after me. But that, that that bio assay, the sense that, look, we’re gonna figure out what something does by consuming it, that I know that certainly and you fit into that category that that’s originally how this all came about was by personal experimentation. And so you so to say that well, then we tested to see where were they adding other things and so they went looking for other possible additives that might have been put in there and said that they didn’t find anything. And so then, I think the ultimate conclusion was as well, so then people reporting novel experiences that must all just be placebo or something like that. Rather than asking the scientific question of, maybe there’s something in the methodology that we could address that maybe can uncover, because if so many people are reporting that they’re having unique experiences, kind of indicates that there might be something unique here.
Ian Benouis 55:28
Yeah, so they’re just absolutely so like Adam said, it’s a basic failure of science. And then everyone can draw their own conclusions as to why they were determined to find a false negative. Right. So if they were told that you saw I wanted to test the sacrament and find psilocybin and psilocybin in there, that’s exactly what they did. Everybody knows methanol will do that. So you know, and Adam wanted to find out he had a curiosity, we’re trying to find out, they wanted to disprove a negative, but it’s a false negative report. It doesn’t prove anything at all. And then they, they didn’t do their What did my son say? He said, It must really suck to be doing the thing that you’re supposed to be an expert in, you know, basically completely failing at it. It’s like, yeah, so they were they were they had a negative self fulfilling prophecy that they realized. And then, yeah, people like that. Other people. You mentioned the so called nonprofit news organization. Yeah. They attacked you because they wanted to complete their character assassination in their canceled culture. Yeah, format. And it’s not it’s not even journalism. I mean, they’re there. As an i is an attorney, they don’t have any protection under the Freedom of the press. They’re doing it’s you know, it’s like it’s character assassination, like, taking videos and chopping them up and slowing them down and timelines. It’s like, you know, SNL doesn’t even have to do that SNL. You just get on there be funny. And people laugh. It’s like, I’m sure I could, yeah, the video, the different videos where you can have now the world leaders say anything for all the different words that they said. It’s like, yeah, that’s that’s the kind of stuff that they’re doing. And with this lawsuit that very soon, they won’t be doing that anymore. I don’t think there’ll be I think it’s their last their last attempts a character assassination. And with us and you, Martin. Yeah.
Martin Ball 57:26
So maybe we could talk a little bit about that. Well, so what you are yourself a lawyer. So what’s happening on the legal front, because of course, there were repercussions from scientifically non conclusive materials being published. And then people running with that, and creating a narrative. And again, using the words of like fake fraud, charlatans, they’re just trying to take your money, and they’re creating a narrative around it. Which is, you know, that was something that I tried to address in the podcast episode that I put out after Cynthia Genesis where I said, Look, you know, I don’t I can’t speak to the science on this. But, you know, calling the people who are involved with the church has taken sentences as being frauds or charlatans or that they’re just trying to run a scam, that that completely misses the mark of like who they are and what they’re doing that I do think it’s important to actually not just characterize or mischaracterize people, but actually spend time speaking with them. Like I don’t know if any of these quote unquote reporters ever contacted the church to actually speak with any of you guys.
Ian Benouis 58:33
No, no only only you know, people without dropping names, right and to possibly be shared it with that there’s, it’s all about virtue signaling Martin, and you’ve talked about this on podcast before, everyone, you’re the only person you know, in the five ml space that stood up and refuse to be kowtow to the virtue signaling. And now that we have our data, all the other five Meo heads, right, that took our stuff like the person who made this molecule, the inventor of the hyperlink in the internet will have the cover to be able to come out now and say, Yeah, I took Silverfox in two years ago, and I’ve been working with it since then. And yeah, so that’s what we did. We we gave it to the five Meo heads, like you, so we could make sure and everyone’s like, everyone’s like, yeah, five HT one, activity, five EMEIA whatever’s going on here is this five MBO activity. Right. And so we did our work that way before we started sharing it with everybody.
Martin Ball 59:30
Yeah, and again, from the experiential standpoint, for me, I mean, clearly, this was something different. And I thought it was worthwhile to report on and worthwhile to share there again, not coming from a science background that I can’t say anything definitive about the science or the methodology, and that’s why I’m really happy that we’ve had Adam on to share all of these technical details and they aren’t very technical. And then that’s the thing that he is and I apologize. No, no, no, that’s what we want. We want we want because everything He is so simplified within culture to be absorbed through media reactivity, right? That it’s just it’s so much sexier you can say, ah, scam. Right and leave it there as well. No, that’s let’s talk about the science. And then let’s also talk about the people. Let’s talk about the motivations and let’s talk about the process of what’s actually happening here. So yeah, I don’t even I don’t know if you had a place to be. Go ahead, jump in.
Ian Benouis 1:00:32
I was just gonna say I wanted to share it share an anecdote with you that I chaired live and we were an empty agenesis last year, and that it’s that and I’ve never shared this publicly. So this will, you know, drop on your podcast along with all our other good news is that I was on a call last year with William Leonard Picard Okay, the if you believe the government’s accounts and better 90% of the world’s LSD, right, the missile silo guy. And on that same call was Wendy Tucker, and shoguns daughter, Sasha shoguns stepdaughter, and so on that phone call that Greg lake was on with US law partner, and he’s not going to go along with the church to take on the lawsuit. But he’s still, you know, part of our part of our crew, he was on that call. And William Leonard Picard looked at me and looked at us and he was like a zoom call and said, so you guys found silom with oxygen? And I’m like, Okay. And then he says, Sasha Shogun, and Peyton Jacobs is still alive. So people can ask you, a poke the internet, whatever. We’re playing with similar thoughts and back in the day. And I’m like, these are psychedelic elders. Right. I mean, like, we’re not Picard. I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna be on a call here. I’m gonna have to ask him what he just said. I’m like, Oh, wait, you just said that. Sasha Shogun, and Peyton Jacobs, were playing the silver fox and back in the day, and he just looked at me like, okay, yeah. And I asked him later, after that meeting, you know, send him an email and say, Would you, you know, anonymously or, you know, publicly disclose this right, what you said. And he even said, if you had a date for it, that would be helpful. He didn’t read a reply to my email at all. And so I forward that email on to any doctor. And, you know, I knew I knew we smoked DMT and Mexico back at botanical preservation Corp and pullin K in 1996. And they said, Hey, what’s your take on this? You know, was your dad was your stepdad messing with Silverfox? And he goes, Well, I looked at his book, right? And in his book, he didn’t have it written in there. But once his lab got busted, and he’s paid his $25,000 dda fine, he didn’t write anything, but he wrote some breadcrumbs about Scylla methoxy. And, and he wrote some breadcrumbs, about the enzymes that basically will make anything for hydroxylated. If it’s a trip to me in T Cal, so he didn’t write any more about drugs, recipes, but he left some breadcrumbs for people to find. So in that way, sounds like Sasha shoguns might be the first person that ever took some toxin.
Adam McKay 1:03:13
So now, I wouldn’t be surprised as Bo was the first to take quite a lot of
Ian Benouis 1:03:17
things. He said, Yeah, Sasha said it was real man. So we were looking forward to find out. Yeah.
Martin Ball 1:03:23
So I have questions for both of you. And so on Adam side, the question would be, so what comes next, scientifically speaking, and in terms of especially like sharing this data with other scientific institutes and getting more people to look at it? And then also for Ian, the question is, so what comes now for for the church? Now that really the this is a form of sort of public redemption, in the sense that you’re able to confirm that? Yeah, it’s what we said it was. And so we can move forward and kind of move past the scandal of this scam and the fakes and the frauds? And so whoever would want to answer first, but two questions for the future. Yeah,
Adam McKay 1:04:08
I’ll just say one quick thing, that I was hoping I was going to be regarded as a before it is just as difficult to prove something is not there as it is that it is there. So, you know, one can just go very easily with a test and say, No, it’s not that no charlatans unless they have like a pure the true known, like no one ever doubted standard and be like, That’s the standard and it’s not there because of that. However, you can’t just say now, it is there, without like the same level of surety in the standard which is not characterized, like to the highest extent that is necessary. It is strong evidence so far, like and ooh, keep going with that but nothing is like more than 99% Absolute, it is pretty damn certain that this active thing in the mushroom that that has been detected that weighs exactly what it should, and the citizens that should make this and then weighs the same as that and even has a side product that was theorized that also weighs the same and that was there all this is strong evidence, but it is not definitive to the highest degree. But it is a hell of a strong. Verify that out
Ian Benouis 1:05:36
there that will come Barton with the NMR, which is basically like it’s shooting waves. It’s basically like, you know, waves to the atoms and then how they bend, right tells you what position they’re in. So even though you can say, well, you know, the might be the same way, right based on that bond and a different position. But this is going to be able to tell you, Oh, where the stuffs located by the NMR is going to tell you the layout of it. There you go. It’s going to tell you that you know the stereochemistry of it. Okay, so, yeah.
Martin Ball 1:06:10
So there are steps that can be taken to further along this path of confirmation. And as Adam is saying that this is not 100% definitive, this is excellent information. This is highly suggestive information. It sounds like it’d be very unlikely for it to be something else. But there are still steps steps that can be taken, that we can further investigate this scientifically, hopefully, dispassionately like and not trying to prove a negative not just, oh, I want to prove that these guys are wrong. But actually with that open scientific inquisitiveness of let’s see what’s really here. Let’s see what we can confirm because that that is the nature of science that if just one person proves something, and nobody else can show that, that thing? Well, that’s not science. Science is about replicability about confirmation and about testing and about agreements about what standards are met, and how we measure things and all of that. That’s what science is. Science is not just oh, we tested one thing. And now we got that story’s done.
Ian Benouis 1:07:19
Yeah, amen. Amen. So yeah. So you wanted me to to kind of talk about where the church is going. So yeah, yeah. So right. The church has a couple of partners that are going to help us allow Silla methoxy to be an active molecule that can have GMP standards, and enter the stream of commerce over the counter while in clinical trials towards an FDA indication. That’s the whole bind, all the psychedelic companies are in, they can’t work with them off schedule, and they can’t be considered medicines until the FDA approves them. So the whole time we’re waiting, they’re off limits schedule on drugs, but things that aren’t on the schedule, don’t have to conform to that. So just like kratom, could get an FDA indication if they wanted to, or delta ate. The same thing for cinema Fox. And so the church has a biotech partner that’s going to make selling the toxin in yeast, we have a distribution partner that’s going to be able to distribute the pure molecule. And then we have a university partner that will allow us to be able to start doing the clinical trials right away so that we can do all that science towards an FDA indication. And whether we get it or not, we’ll have all this scientific data that will keep the government from being able to over regulate something that’s not in the schedule, and then try to because it’s not in the schedule, try to make extra rules for it. There’s the current schedule doesn’t work. And the current rules don’t work. So we don’t don’t need to create new worlds. And when the government backed off, it was a year and a half now of the five scheduled tryptamines. Right. We’ve talked and we talked about this in the podcast, or anyone, so whatever it was, they did that. That was a signal to us that the drug war was going from the government would be on the offensive to now the defensive because people stood up against any kind of analog act enforcement. And they said no, so they snuck five Meo DMT onto the schedule under right. Well, you didn’t know about I didn’t know about it. They did that saying it was like DMT. And then now they’re like, now we got to make five, Vimeo MIP T illegal. And when we stood up, we were part of the suit fighting that. And people like David Brown went up there and you know, protested the government’s like, No, I’m not going to touch that. And we’re like, wow, Silla. methoxide is further away structure activity from five MBO than five MBO MIP. So we’re like okay, that’s the green light with the government. Thank God it’s not doesn’t have an appetite for stupid analog act enforcement. authored by by the way, President Biden. He’s the co author of The analog Act was Strom Thurmond. Yeah, and so that they were like, We got something that’s useful that’s on the schedule. This is a gift. And this is so it is helpful in the therapeutic context. So we have to have, you have to have a church because you have to encapsulate your religious sincerity to protect the government interference, right? And then you have, then you have these other business partners, these other enterprises to keep other corporations from ripping your shit off. And trying to commercialize it, in a way that doesn’t is not getting the medicine to the people.
Martin Ball 1:10:32
And so how about from a PR perspective? Is there anything that the church is planning? You know, I saw the announcements that were on Facebook and on Instagram, and it also had, I think, emails at press at church of sacred synthesis, kind of inviting people like, what if you want to ask questions, but here’s, here’s the results of our scientific analysis. So as is the church planning anything beyond that, in terms of, you know, making this known and again, because there was so much negative press? And because we all know, negative press, Brad is much more easily and much more quickly than anything positive or anything neutral. So is there any specific plans to counteract that? Or to address that? That’s
Ian Benouis 1:11:17
a great question. So let me say this. Yeah, I’ve always been a believer I knew civil toxin is real because I knew joke and Garson is real and yet patents on the stuff of phosphor oxalate in power hydroxyl lating, a DDT the IPT, and DPT. Right. And that one of those is a patented substance that different drug companies are find the four Oh H tip t. So I’m like, This is no big deal that these that these enzymes do it. So we have all the proof is what Adams saying. The last step is the NMR NMR. Right, that and then like so. Yeah, so but we already have other third party mass spectrometry confirmation lined up. And then we have like Adam saying, this is more this is if it’s like, okay, William letter, Picard said at the maps conference, these new psychedelic startups referring to us, you need to be helped them, you know, and so NMR if you got NMR, come help us and be part of this discovery together and be part of that 100% confirmation that everyone wants. But we can’t find people to help us, which is why we had to build all the lab ourselves, and do all this stuff herself and realize there’s a whole, you know, community of corporations with these da scheduling licenses, and you know, where you can access these machines. And it’s very hard to get into, I mean, Oakland high pay was lucky during COVID, right? These a lot of these companies went out of business, and they were able to buy some machines and stuff. And we’ve done that we’ve done the same kind of thing. But we’re still at the point, like, you know, yeah, within the next couple of weeks, we’ll have an NMR test, or we’ll have an NMR machine ourselves, you know what I mean? Because people will not now that, you know, these other people are done slagging us, we can get back to where we were with some good numbers that can help, you know, our church that run and I mean, we had people, Martin, just like, at the end of their ropes man, like my bank game count went down to zero, I put over $100,000 in this church, you know, we’ve all been nothing. Anyway, this, I’m just saying the haters don’t even know what they’re talking about. And, yeah, we’re just happy. We wanted the church to be able to spread the medicine. And now, we’ll either have to help other people on the NMR, or we’ll do it ourselves. But see, again, we still have to have this is third party bullshit, right? It’s like, how many tests you have to have somebody confirm. So yeah, so we’ll have this within a month, right? And that’s not reasonable. I mean, we’re gonna you know, whether we have it ourselves, or someone else does it for us. And beyond NMR, there won’t be any more tests to do. Right. Unless we’re going to do like X ray. Crystal,
Adam McKay 1:14:06
you should be doing X ray. But since there’s only so many tests, I would say definitely under 10, likely under five to my name might even be enough the X ray and NMR. Obviously, So little things like melting point and such just to characterize fully a new substance to go into databases.
Ian Benouis 1:14:27
Or they’ll say to you, but we want help, we want help. We had a good image. We never tarnished our own image. We never, you know, we never lost our faith. And now yeah, now we’re redeemed and We’re suing the people who defamed us and then the people who piled on with that, because this is the only way to teach people a lesson and they took our money away. They took our, our livelihood away. We’re we’re helping other people. We’re bunch of us are, you know, combat veterans, right disabled and they’re like, thought that it was like cool High School to, you know, yeah, try to do some Kancil culture on us. But, you know, they tried to bury us with their bullshit, but we were spores, and we fuckin grew through that shit. And oh, by the way that never knew or had some flowers grass. And it’s, you had that sort of a toxin naturally occurring substance in the fruiting bodies. So.
Martin Ball 1:15:28
Excellent. And Adam, how do you see your role with the church moving forward now that you’ve kind of done this heavy lifting, with this initial research, but what’s next?
Adam McKay 1:15:42
Well, what’s next, obviously, is carrying on with the proper studies that any novel substance would get characterization and exploration. And there’s just so much already to that, that I’m excited for the future. This getting set up was probably the hardest part, being able to do this sort of research without having, you know, a facility, such as any major Institute or university, that hurdle know has been overcome. But we’re happy to have people who are sincere and skilled in these areas to come further the research and learn about this, and explore it further.
Martin Ball 1:16:23
Great. Well, thank you both so much for sharing your time with me today. And Adam, I believe you’re still trying to get to Texas to join in. But I really appreciate both of you taking the time. And thank you, Adam, for going through all the science and all the details. And again, if people want to reach out, whereas did they reach out to either help out or continue on with the scientific work? Yeah.
Adam McKay 1:16:52
In at sila Mattox, and.com.
Ian Benouis 1:16:56
Okay, yeah, I Barden, if I could just have like a last word from us, I’ll share another tidbit from the same phone call with William letter P card, we run for card. He’s this is the guy predicting the federal crisis, right? 20 years ago. And he’s one of these sees himself as one of these top six candidates in the world along the Shogun and offline and whatnot. And he said, there’s gonna be 10,000 tryptamine analogs in the next 18 months, this was our six months ago. And that’s gonna come from me. So that’s the biotech revolution. And that’s where all the psychedelics are gonna come from the psilocybin genome has been mapped. And then once you start crossing kingdoms and start to bring in Zeno synthesis of using similar but overlapping and related biosynthetic pathways, then with gene editing, and using yeast, you can make anything you want to make.
Martin Ball 1:17:46
Wow, that sounds exciting. Yeah, that’s
Ian Benouis 1:17:49
what so that’s for us six, you know, six to 12 months away, of being able to have Silverfox and firm yeast is probably realistic expectations.
Martin Ball 1:17:58
All right. Well, it’s been a pleasure to be on this journey with you guys that, you know, we’ve kind of been in it together. Because, yeah, we all got roped in to the public defamation that was happening at the time. But I’m glad that you guys have stuck with it, that you have really pursued the science that you have prioritized the pursuit of truth, and also the sharing of that information, and wanting to collaborate with others outside of the church, that this is not just an insular thing, but you are looking to actively collaborate and have confirmation. And, you know, hopefully places like USANA can maybe take a little lesson in humility and maybe some some decency of human interaction to maybe reach out next time. You know, don’t just don’t just prove a negative and then take Glee in putting others down, which, given the timing of their paper, you know, that it’s not like they were like gleefully saying, Oh, we’ve got them in the paper that they wrote. But given the timing, it’s certainly very suspect and it doesn’t, doesn’t seem very compassionate from that end. And so yeah, let’s all be human to each other and let’s do the science together because science is a collaborative process ultimately. So thank you guys for doing the work for persisting and thank you for sharing everything you’ve shared today. Really appreciate it. Thank you
Adam McKay 1:19:25
so much. All
Martin Ball 1:19:27
right. Well, you guys have a good night and enjoy taxes. Are you are you in a smoke filled zone in Texas Ian or is there
Ian Benouis 1:19:38
no, I don’t that’s not those are north north of here.
Martin Ball 1:19:41
Okay.
Ian Benouis 1:19:42
Yeah, it’s beautiful here in Austin right now. The blue bonnets are popping. That’s incredible.
Martin Ball 1:19:47
All right, beautiful. Well, I look forward to coming back to Austin someday.
Ian Benouis 1:19:51
Anthea, Genesis 2024 We’re gonna do it don’t know when but it’s gonna happen. God willing. Want You Back. We want you back. All right.
Adam McKay 1:20:02
All right, Sam. I swear no crazy at lengthy details of that science is just to get the whole picture out there. At first. Thanks for following along. Yeah.
Martin Ball 1:20:12
Thank you so much, Adam. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. And you guys have a good night.
Ian Benouis 1:20:15
All right, please. All right.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Ian Benouis 